I felt at home at Het Parool right away, and there was a sense of connection to its history as a newspaper. I think you also feel a strong personal bond with NU.nl.

“I haven’t been at NU.nl for as long as you’ve been at Het Parool – I started 12 years ago, as part of a very small newsroom. But I also felt at home from the moment I walked through the door. I grew up at my local football club, so I know what it’s like to be surrounded by lots of people who all share the same goal. And that’s the spirit I found at NU.nl. Anything was possible, everyone was happy to help and I learned quickly. I found exactly what I was looking for: a group of people that wanted to work together to be the very best, to provide the best possible news coverage.”

You became editor-in-chief after being deputy for only four months. I personally noticed a big difference between those two jobs. As editor-in-chief, you have ultimate responsibility, and people look at you differently. What was that transition like for you?

“It definitely was a bit of a whirlwind. I was appointed deputy editor-in-chief in early 2023, but four months later Gert-Jaap Hoekman announced his departure and I suddenly had to fill the role of acting editor-in-chief. From one day to the next, I became a one-woman leadership team.”

“I had already been senior editor for quite some time, so the editorial team knew who I was. But the feeling did change overnight – I don’t know why. Now it’s you who’s ultimately responsible, who has to deal with the most difficult issues and make the toughest decisions. I hope that people still feel like they can talk to me if they have something on their mind, but it’s not the same. At the end of the day, you are – even though I hate this word – the boss.”

When I started as editor-in-chief, I had a clear goal: Het Parool needed to be transformed from a print publication to a strong online news brand. When you look back on your time as editor-in-chief, what are some things that you definitely want to have accomplished?

“I also have a mission. NU.nl has matured over the past few years – it’s now a well-oiled news machine with a strong video team, and the NUjij community is unique. But I think a lot of visitors don’t realise what’s behind all those news headlines. We have so many great reporters, and I’d like to close the gap between them and our visitors. Take our crime reporter, Joris Peters, or our football expert, Rypke Bakker – I want people to become fans of them. That’s going to increase people’s trust in our reporting and strengthen the connection between our visitors and our brand.”

How did you learn your leadership skills? I started out as a reporter and then I was senior editor for a few years, but that’s still very different from running a news brand.

“It was a process of trial and error for me. I became senior editor when I was around 28, and I was thrown in at the deep end. I was very young – I’d been a good news editor, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re ready to be a leader. So there I was, still wet behind the ears, heading up a team that I myself had been part of, with reporters who were more experienced than me. The most important thing I learned during that period was to be very clear, and not to shy away from difficult decisions. As editor-in-chief, I try to be a good listener, and to reflect on the choices I make. But I also hope to embody the joy of this profession through my unstoppable drive.”

The role of leaders has changed: less hierarchy, less ego, more collaboration. That style seems like a more natural fit for the younger generations, which you’re part of. What are you like as a leader?

The leadership dynamic at NU.nl hasn’t necessarily changed, because that focus on collaboration has been there from the start. Of course, we haven’t been around that long – we’re celebrating our 25th anniversary this year – and the team has always been quite young. I do believe you achieve more by working together. At the same time, I’m not always the most patient person, so yes, we’re going to work together, but let’s please keep it moving. The needs of our readers are changing, so we have to keep up. I’m not one to bang my fist on the table, though. I think you can be a lot more effective if you have a team that’s happy to work for you. That’s something I always strive to achieve.”

If you do what we do, it’s easy to lose yourself in your work. There’s always something that needs to be done. It took me a while to realise that you can’t keep an eye on everything, and that you don’t have to. How do you deal with that?

“I still have to learn to let things go. Not long after I was appointed, a new deputy started as well, and we have a strong leadership team. So I sometimes go: hang on, I don’t have to get involved in this right now. I never had that before I joined the leadership team at NU.nl – I was always in the thick of it. I was talking about this at home the other day, and I mentioned that, for the first time, I felt like I wasn’t needed for a moment. That’s going to take some getting used to, but I also see tremendous value in it, because it allows you to zoom out and monitor the big picture.”

Do you talk to your editors about the importance of work-life balance as well? Younger generations are better at that than Gen X-ers like me. We used to be here from morning till night, and we thought that was normal.

We’ve also had periods where we basically lived in the newsroom. And it’s not like that never happens anymore, especially if there’s a major news story unfolding. But a few years ago, we did ask ourselves: what kind of example are we setting by doing that? What do people think is expected of them when they see that I’m still working at ten or eleven o’clock at night? That’s something I try to be aware of. So now I keep a low profile if I’m still at it in the evening. But sometimes I’ll also squeeze in a workout or take the dog for a walk first thing in the morning. I hope to show others that hard work and relaxation always have to go hand in hand.”